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 Post subject: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:44 am 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 9:27 pm
Posts: 3
Country: USA
Laser Type: MUSE
Hi everyone, we recently received our Muse to assist my wife's leather business and having the able to grow the business. We are new to the laser industry and went with the Muse because of the ease of getting into lasers. I scanned through this forum and I don't see much on the Muse, couple of post here and there. is there anybody that I can chat with on here that is running the Muse? I am currently working with FSLaser on some issues, but I want some advice/compare notes to actual users. they have been ok to work with but they are slow to responses which impedes our ability to use the laser on certain jobs. So far we can't get RetinaEngrave3d to work with Muse, everything has to be done on the IP based RetinaEngrave. I know this Muse is new and will have corks and what not, maybe the Muse owners can work together to get some of these corks figured out.

thanks for opportunity to join the group and we are excited on how we can expanded.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:06 am
Posts: 120
Location: Oregon
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th gen Hobby
As far as I know, the web based retina engrave is the only way to work with the Muse.

Otherwise, it's still pretty new. I know there are a few people on the facebook group that are having some good luck with it.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:41 am 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 9:27 pm
Posts: 3
Country: USA
Laser Type: MUSE
Thanks hoozie, good to know on the RetinaEngrave software-I am still waiting on FSLaser to assist. My other issue and again not sure anyone can help yet, when we design something, logo or any art in photoshop, inkscape etc, we import it into the web based Retina and the art is not the same scale-not even close. As you all know, when you designed something to a specific scale, that's how you want to etch/cut it. Every deigned has to be re-scaled and we shouldn't have to, the only way we can re-scale it is by increasing/decreasing the size..... not very accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Posts: 14
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th Gen Model A
SOUTHERN STAR wrote:
My other issue and again not sure anyone can help yet, when we design something, logo or any art in photoshop, inkscape etc, we import it into the web based Retina and the art is not the same scale-not even close.


I haven't used the software (since you have to have a Muse in order to do that) so I have a couple of questions.

1.) When you say "we import" what does that mean? Do you go through a "print" step through a print driver, or do you use the web-based software to directly open a file on your local hard drive?
2.) If it's a file-based import, what kinds of files can the web-based RasterEngrave support? Where does this list live?
3.) I'm assuming, for instance, that the Muse Raster Engrave can't directly consume an Inkscape specific .svg file. Given that, do you have to save the file in some particular format? What format?

Sorry for the inquisition, but few have the Muse. Lots of us have experience with file formats and saving and importing and printing through odd print drivers, though. So a little more detail might yield some helpful suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 9:27 pm
Posts: 3
Country: USA
Laser Type: MUSE
1.) When you say "we import" what does that mean? Do you go through a "print" step through a print driver, or do you use the web-based software to directly open a file on your local hard drive?
The Muse uses a web based program,RetinaEngrave2. You have to open a file and it uploads into the program. The RetinaEngrave1, print to program doesn't work with the Muse.
2.) If it's a file-based import, what kinds of files can the web-based RasterEngrave support? Where does this list live? Almost any file can be uploaded into the RetinaEngrave2, only SVG can be vector files, which is one of my problems. We pull the images off a file on the desktop.
3.) I'm assuming, for instance, that the Muse Raster Engrave can't directly consume an Inkscape specific .svg file. Given that, do you have to save the file in some particular format? What format?
I have designed a few files in Inkscape, the major problem is the scaling is so far off, both raster and vector. The image can be scaled bigger(expanding the image) but that will cause the proportions are not correct.

Sorry for the inquisition, but few have the Muse. Lots of us have experience with file formats and saving and importing and printing through odd print drivers, though. So a little more detail might yield some helpful suggestions.

No worries, I'm new to this so I want to learn and also help others. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:06 am
Posts: 120
Location: Oregon
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th gen Hobby
If you're using windows, there's a print driver available on their site for the Muse. The Mac version was supposed to be in process. I'm not sure how well it works, but I wouldn't definitely try it.

Otherwise, the recommendation is to print everything to a pdf from the design program (or bmp/jpg viewer), then import the pdf to RE2. That should hopefully fix the scaling issues.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Posts: 14
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th Gen Model A
To help anyone reading along, I've marked up our conversation with font color. In the following quote block, what I (kypyro) wrote is in red and what Southern Star answered is in blue. I have more comments after the quote block.

Quote:
1.) When you say "we import" what does that mean? Do you go through a "print" step through a print driver, or do you use the web-based software to directly open a file on your local hard drive?
The Muse uses a web based program,RetinaEngrave2. You have to open a file and it uploads into the program. The RetinaEngrave1, print to program doesn't work with the Muse.

2.) If it's a file-based import, what kinds of files can the web-based RasterEngrave support? Where does this list live?

Almost any file can be uploaded into the RetinaEngrave2, only SVG can be vector files, which is one of my problems. We pull the images off a file on the desktop.

3.) I'm assuming, for instance, that the Muse Raster Engrave can't directly consume an Inkscape specific .svg file. Given that, do you have to save the file in some particular format? What format?

I have designed a few files in Inkscape, the major problem is the scaling is so far off, both raster and vector. The image can be scaled bigger(expanding the image) but that will cause the proportions are not correct.

Sorry for the inquisition, but few have the Muse. Lots of us have experience with file formats and saving and importing and printing through odd print drivers, though. So a little more detail might yield some helpful suggestions.

No worries, I'm new to this so I want to learn and also help others. Thank you.


I have a couple of suggestions. First, in inkscape, it defaults to an inkscape-specific .svg file format. To interchange data with other programs, it's best to "save as" then choose "Plain SVG (*.svg)" in the bottom right menu selection box.

Second, I think it might be helpful to have one of the files that give you problems. I do lots of format conversion, and I can tell you whether there's anything that might cause problems in your file. I'd prefer to work with one of your Inkscape files, (since that will have broadest helpfulness to other peopl as well) but I can process pretty much anything.

Third, If you don't want to offer up one of your problem files, I can provide you some sample files to load and see how they present in the web-based RetinaEngrave.

Let me know what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Posts: 14
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th Gen Model A
hoozie wrote:
If you're using windows, there's a print driver available on their site for the Muse. The Mac version was supposed to be in process. I'm not sure how well it works, but I wouldn't definitely try it.

Otherwise, the recommendation is to print everything to a pdf from the design program (or bmp/jpg viewer), then import the pdf to RE2. That should hopefully fix the scaling issues.


Cool, thanks for the information. I guess I should go back and look at the Muse information on the FSLaser site again.

I wouldn't expect printing to a PDF to solve everything; that's often the step where automatic scaling to fit a page size occurs. This is the step where unexpected scaling gets inserted unless your graphic fits on the default page without scaling. If it doesn't, you have to choose a paper size that will take the whole graphic.

Beyond that, very few "print to PDF" subsystems preserve vector graphics (though it is possible to write the subsystem code in a way that does that.) So, If you have a nice vector graphic drawing, all the vectors get rastered in the "print to PDF step" and then when you import into RetinaEngrave, it does a raster to vector conversion when it loads the PDF. Errors creep in, because the process isn't perfect. It's much better to choose your tool chain in a way that retains the vector definitions if that is at all possible. Here, it should be possible. But probably not by going through PDFs.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:06 am
Posts: 120
Location: Oregon
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th gen Hobby
For sure, when you do print, make sure there's no scaling, and that it has a page size as big or larger than your work area. As long as I do that, I've never had an issue with the scale being wrong in RE1.

I've printed combined vector and raster designs from Illustrator to pdf, then printed the pdf to RE1 and everything came in as it was supposed to. With some of our designs, that's the only way everything will show up correctly in RE1 :huh?:

I've also had some vector lines only show up in RE1 if I print the pdf from acrobat, and not from Foxit. But the same design that was scaled differently in illustrator prints just fine from Foxit. Weird, but I've made it work.


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 Post subject: Re: New Muse and new to lasers
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Posts: 14
Country: USA
Laser Type: 5th Gen Model A
hoozie wrote:
For sure, when you do print, make sure there's no scaling, and that it has a page size as big or larger than your work area. As long as I do that, I've never had an issue with the scale being wrong in RE1.


Some PDF print drivers automatically set a scale factor even when one isn't needed. From some applications I've had to choose a really oversized page in order to stop the automatic scaling. I've also had to hunt down various scaling check boxes and set scaling manually to 100% in some applications.

Quote:
I've printed combined vector and raster designs from Illustrator to pdf, then printed the pdf to RE1 and everything came in as it was supposed to. With some of our designs, that's the only way everything will show up correctly in RE1 :huh?:

I've also had some vector lines only show up in RE1 if I print the pdf from acrobat, and not from Foxit. But the same design that was scaled differently in illustrator prints just fine from Foxit. Weird, but I've made it work.



Illustrator has a good PDF print subsystem, and it definitely supports vectors. Adobe stuff can handle it well, but sometimes there is an additional "advanced" settings check box for "Vector Subsystem" you have to choose if you want your vectors preserved. Foxit stuff is a mixed bag. They definitely support vectors internally in their editors. Depending on the version, they sometimes do vector to raster conversion when printing even when going through a printer driver that supports vectors. I've had vector printing work from older Foxit viewers, but then it stopped working somewhere along the way. I haven't tried in a couple of years.

The trick, as you hint at, is to find a path that works, and use it.


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